2. We use povidone iodine nasal wash/gargle anytime we feel a sore throat or other crud coming on and whenever we've been around crowds. We add a pinch of baking/soda salt to the iodine mix (add several drops of iodine to a large re-used mouthwash cap filled with warm water plus the aforementioned pinch, administered nasally with a dosing syringe). No irritation whatsoever. You also can add a few drops of iodine to a Neilmed squirt bottle mix.
3. If you combine the information from Turtles All the Way Down with Vax-Unvax: Let the Science Speak, you may go -- as we did -- from vaccine believers to vaccine skeptics. COVID really ripped off the vaccine band aid (to mix a few metaphors).
We put together a Covid Essential Links (CEL) page on Substack as COVID unfolded and we began learning more. Updated as needed. CEL includes books, websites, Substacks (including Lightning Bug), treatments guides, etc.: https://eolson47.substack.com/p/covid-essential-links
Makes sense that buffering the povidone iodine would make it more tolerable. One hesitation I have with chronic use of any of the nasapharyngeal interventions we are discussing is eradication of commensal flora.
Agree 100% about overuse risking harm to commensal flora (also why antibiotics can wreck the gut flora). We only use these interventions when we feel something “coming on” or after being in a crowded store or other place where people may be ailing and ventilation is not good. And only until the “coming on” bug appears gone, which usually is no more than a day or two — ~four administrations, rarely more, usually less.
Same comment as above. A prolonged or repetitive use of anti biotics is a worry for gut flora. An occasional 10 day course, which is what a typical Covid infection should be when attended upon early, need not be a worry.
A 8-10 day treatment plan for a fresh infection, early treatments, along with classical URT medicines, these nasal sprays need not be a problem. That would be so in most cases. Yes, in prolonged treatments, there should be second thoughts.
Cetyl Pyridinium Chloride ( CPC), the classical mouth wash ingredient, was found to kill this virus rapidly, as mouth wash in 2020 itself. It is a surprise that it was not further worked upon as a prophylactic or even therapeutic. I am not a doctor and knowledgable people can clarify, including doctors, whether it could be ok as a home water diluted nasal spray, for Covid. Like Pivodone Iodine or Benzalkonium chloride, this too is an antiseptic ( i.e. anti bacterial). But that is not predominantly why they work against this covid virus. As an old organic chemist (PhD), taken to reading medicinal chemistry and structures of drugs in retirement, I feel they are strong anti virals conferred on it by their chemical structures. You can show this explanation to your doctors. They are all cationic molecules i.e. having positively charged centres in their chemical structures. When present, they will electrostatically cover the negatively charged host cell surfaces and prevent the cationic active segments of the virus spike protein from lodging on the cell surfaces. Without the support of the host cell surface, the virus has no work to do and gets flushed out. Simple chemistry driving serious biology. These molecules also carry long alkyl chains. These chains can entangle the similar chains of the lipid shell of the virus and make the virus structure unstable. Ipratropium bromide ( anti asthmatic) also can work similarly. Common nasal decongestant sprays like oxymetazoline or xylometazoline, generally regarded as anti histamines, can also be powerful anti virals. They are not ionic like the molecules we discussed now. According to me, they work differently, but using the same electrostatic interaction chemistry. Their amine groups are capable of bonding with the cationic segments of the virus spike proteins. The spike proteins now have no means of bonding to the cell surfaces. No scope for the virus for any work.
Good to know that on CPC. My point was about the possibility of using it as nasal spray home made, as pivodone-iodine has that sensitivity issue. Any comments. And any views on the chemistry I had described on how these drugs are actually anti virals additionally ? Based on this chemistry cum biology, I have been espousing two premises for close to four years now. First, based on structural chemistry, there could be hundreds of common drugs that could be additionally anti viral, from just about every label. Second, ionic drugs could be the best to treat this virus. We have already seen these three nasal spray principles. Montelukast, probably among the top three work horses against Covid world wide in this pandemic, is a carboxylate ion. If my chemistry premise is correct, the cephalosporin anti biotics like Ceftadizime, Cefepime, Cefiderocol would also have been the most powerful off label anti virals against this virus. It is unfortunate that every day doctors everywhere could not catch the import of such a scientific premise. As established repurposed drugs, they were there ready to use.
I defer to your expertise in chemistry on the armentatarium of clinical options, and intend to share what has been effective, reliable and well-tolerated in my personal and clinical experience . The Rx anti-histamine Azelastine is a nasal spray with excellent properties to both limit the effects of Covid on mast cells for sinusitis, and truncate the duration of illness. It's unnecessary, and perhaps quite literally overkills to get into antibiotics which will undermine the microbiome of the nasopharynx.
I am disappointed that my chemistry perspective of the working of these drugs based on their chemical structures didn’t seem to have enthused you much. Perhaps among the hundreds of keen followers you have for your presentations, I could be the only one who could be presenting a basic organic chemistry perspective, on the premise that chemistry drives biology. I was only explaining a perspective that hundreds of common drugs could be additionally anti virals. It doesn’t mean that the armentatarium have to be put to use immediately. I am only expanding the scope for repurposed drugs and it is always good to have options, in this case readily explorable and useable ones. Like Azelastine became a proven experience only after its day one several years ago, others too must follow its path. On anti biotics and the worry about microbiomes, I have in mind another perspective which I will write up separately. But the list of anti biotics I mentioned, to support my chemistry perspective, were not meant to be overkill. If you have freshly tested patient with heavy symptoms, the first priority is to kill his virus load and return him to normalcy quickly. Half the time the infection could be mixed and half the time the doctors prescribe anti biotics too if they suspect presence of a secondary infection too. They must provide anti virals also and I was only indicating the possibility that these molecules are both and are tailor made for the situation. By denying the patient an early recovery option in the name of preventing a possible future side effect ( gut or nasopharynx) and treating him only with peripherals and adjuvants, we are opening the scope for a residual viral load to take long term residence in the scope and thus long Covid presentations, which has been difficult to understand and treat and has affected millions. The treatment in this case will be just a week of these antibiotic cum anti viral, not prolonged or repetitive use and I am not sure if it should be a major concern. In the case of a this community scale infection like this, it is necessary to douse the viral load in the individual before it reaches a peak. In doing so, there is every chance that with early good treatments, his viral load will not be large enough to cause any spread in his family vicinity. In the process the family too gets the desired natural immunity from passive exposure. Over thousands of households in a community, this is stopping spread in the community and creation of natural herd immunity. A short strong treatment is thus a public good too. This is what happened in many parts of the world. Where this approach was shunned, like in USA, the virus refuses to exit. I find that the FLCCC recommendations too bank on slow treatments which may be adequate in the immediate run, but will not be in the long run, in terms of repeat infections and long Covid presentations.
I am continuing this post, as it got posted before I could complete.
The treatment in this case will be just for a week, hopefully not to be returned for a long time, so it should not be a big concern. There is another scenario here. Some strong early treatment will stop the viral growth in the individual at low level so that he will not be a transmitter in his family settings. Who, in turn, will gain natural immunity from passive exposure. Extended over thousands of households, this is stopping the virus spread in the community and gain of natural herd immunity. With no massive population level intervention like vaccination. This is what happened in many countries where the virus practically disappeared more than two years ago. Countries like USA, who in their wisdom, shunned such strong early treatments, are still struggling with the virus, with its never ending show of variants. And the suffering of long Covid in thousands and thousands of them. I find that the FLCCC protocols are also mild, adequate for a slow recovery of the patient from the infection without serious illness, but not adequate to prevent him from possible reinfections and long term issues.
I've gone down a pH rabbit hole recently. Turns out, SC2 likes pH to be in a particular range; pH < 6.2 or pH > 7.4 prevents viral fusion. Your fancy new nasal spray is extremely low pH (3.5). I'd be curious to hear if a "buffered" saline nasal spray (pH > 8) worked as well.
Study suggests entry of SARS-CoV-2 requires an acidic pH [Sep 2022]
"The study results uncovered a previously unknown requirement of a specific pH range of 6.5 – 6.8 for successful cell membrane fusion and cytosolic release of virion particles by the SARS-CoV-2 virion..."
Yes, I am also aware of the acidic pH basis for the virus. That is why hundreds of common drugs are potential anti virals, because most of them are amine types providing basic pH. Many of these molecules are also Cationic Amphiphilic Drugs (CADs), molecules that pick up the acidity in lysosomes in the cells to become protonated ( cationic). This deprivation of pH ( acidity) to the virus is their mode of anti viral action.
Is that so ? Did you have an occasion to check it ? I would have thought that CPC could be strong salt like, nearly neutral. If any of you have lab access, please check it out .,that would be interesting. Years ago, I have evaluated CPC as an anti static additive in melamine-formaldehyde resin, basically a conductive material in a highly insulative medium. It confers strong conductive properties on the cured resin, as a strong salt. I that is what we were looking for. I did not find any abnormal behaviour in the cure process of the resin. A pH of 3.3 would have made the cure process extremely fast. There is a recent Japanese paper that describes why CPC is a good anti viral on SARS cov-2. Though biology centered, it does talk about electrostatic interaction.
Re: Baobab....when I read your earlier article on it, I immediately ordered some and started taking it throughout the day. My intestines responded with a dramatic slow down, and altho there was no intestinal discomfort, I needed senna to induce any movement. Altho I stopped the Baobab, the effects took a few months to wear off!!! Any thoughts?
Interesting and the first report I have encountered like this. A small number of patients have had MCAS flares with Baobab. MCAS is fickle, and can result in both diarrhea and/or constipation. The duration of a month though is very puzzling, and makes me curious about other contributing factors.
I don't have any other sx of MCAS and no reason to suspect it, and consider myself very healthy. I AM one of those people who react oddly to many things, and most of my medical encounters involve the words "hmmmm, I've never seen anyone do this before" at some point.
I'll keep this atypical response which you reported in mind, and if I have any insights, will be sure to share them. Keep your eyes/ears out for the live podcast I'm doing with Jeff Tezak, CEO of Tiiga, which markets Baobab from small communities in Africa. You could ask him too, but hopefully will learn more about Baobab in general. I will be 5:30-7:00EST on Thursday, October 24th, and I'll post a link that week. We'll record it as well.
I started adding Baobab to Fage yogurt and that seems to be going very well. I am gradually moving the dose up and hope to get to 1 TBSP a day. I have gotten so many good tips from this substack and I consider this one of the best. My gut got ravaged after several rounds of IV antibiotics when dealing with post-op infections. Working to heal it.
Quick comments:
A few products are linked below. We have no financial conflicts with any of them. We pay retail prices.
1. We have been using Baobab and like it very much. We order ours here: https://www.vitacost.com/mrm-superfoods-raw-organic-baobab-powder-8-5-oz
2. We use povidone iodine nasal wash/gargle anytime we feel a sore throat or other crud coming on and whenever we've been around crowds. We add a pinch of baking/soda salt to the iodine mix (add several drops of iodine to a large re-used mouthwash cap filled with warm water plus the aforementioned pinch, administered nasally with a dosing syringe). No irritation whatsoever. You also can add a few drops of iodine to a Neilmed squirt bottle mix.
Neilmed: https://shop.neilmed.com/products/sinus-rinse-kit-with-50-packets and https://shop.neilmed.com/products/sinus-rinse-100-regular-premixed-packets
Fun fact: Oral hygiene includes baking soda/salt, hydrogen peroxide, Epic Xylitol mints (https://epicdental.com/peppermint-mints/), OraTec Therasol (https://www.oratec.net/product-therasolc), Water Pic dental irrigator, Sonicare toothbrush. Completely reversed gum disease, plaque, etc.
3. If you combine the information from Turtles All the Way Down with Vax-Unvax: Let the Science Speak, you may go -- as we did -- from vaccine believers to vaccine skeptics. COVID really ripped off the vaccine band aid (to mix a few metaphors).
We put together a Covid Essential Links (CEL) page on Substack as COVID unfolded and we began learning more. Updated as needed. CEL includes books, websites, Substacks (including Lightning Bug), treatments guides, etc.: https://eolson47.substack.com/p/covid-essential-links
Makes sense that buffering the povidone iodine would make it more tolerable. One hesitation I have with chronic use of any of the nasapharyngeal interventions we are discussing is eradication of commensal flora.
Agree 100% about overuse risking harm to commensal flora (also why antibiotics can wreck the gut flora). We only use these interventions when we feel something “coming on” or after being in a crowded store or other place where people may be ailing and ventilation is not good. And only until the “coming on” bug appears gone, which usually is no more than a day or two — ~four administrations, rarely more, usually less.
Same comment as above. A prolonged or repetitive use of anti biotics is a worry for gut flora. An occasional 10 day course, which is what a typical Covid infection should be when attended upon early, need not be a worry.
A 8-10 day treatment plan for a fresh infection, early treatments, along with classical URT medicines, these nasal sprays need not be a problem. That would be so in most cases. Yes, in prolonged treatments, there should be second thoughts.
Cetyl Pyridinium Chloride ( CPC), the classical mouth wash ingredient, was found to kill this virus rapidly, as mouth wash in 2020 itself. It is a surprise that it was not further worked upon as a prophylactic or even therapeutic. I am not a doctor and knowledgable people can clarify, including doctors, whether it could be ok as a home water diluted nasal spray, for Covid. Like Pivodone Iodine or Benzalkonium chloride, this too is an antiseptic ( i.e. anti bacterial). But that is not predominantly why they work against this covid virus. As an old organic chemist (PhD), taken to reading medicinal chemistry and structures of drugs in retirement, I feel they are strong anti virals conferred on it by their chemical structures. You can show this explanation to your doctors. They are all cationic molecules i.e. having positively charged centres in their chemical structures. When present, they will electrostatically cover the negatively charged host cell surfaces and prevent the cationic active segments of the virus spike protein from lodging on the cell surfaces. Without the support of the host cell surface, the virus has no work to do and gets flushed out. Simple chemistry driving serious biology. These molecules also carry long alkyl chains. These chains can entangle the similar chains of the lipid shell of the virus and make the virus structure unstable. Ipratropium bromide ( anti asthmatic) also can work similarly. Common nasal decongestant sprays like oxymetazoline or xylometazoline, generally regarded as anti histamines, can also be powerful anti virals. They are not ionic like the molecules we discussed now. According to me, they work differently, but using the same electrostatic interaction chemistry. Their amine groups are capable of bonding with the cationic segments of the virus spike proteins. The spike proteins now have no means of bonding to the cell surfaces. No scope for the virus for any work.
CPC in readily available mouthwashes such as Scope, ACT and Crest formulas has been part of the FLCCC protocols for several years now.
Good to know that on CPC. My point was about the possibility of using it as nasal spray home made, as pivodone-iodine has that sensitivity issue. Any comments. And any views on the chemistry I had described on how these drugs are actually anti virals additionally ? Based on this chemistry cum biology, I have been espousing two premises for close to four years now. First, based on structural chemistry, there could be hundreds of common drugs that could be additionally anti viral, from just about every label. Second, ionic drugs could be the best to treat this virus. We have already seen these three nasal spray principles. Montelukast, probably among the top three work horses against Covid world wide in this pandemic, is a carboxylate ion. If my chemistry premise is correct, the cephalosporin anti biotics like Ceftadizime, Cefepime, Cefiderocol would also have been the most powerful off label anti virals against this virus. It is unfortunate that every day doctors everywhere could not catch the import of such a scientific premise. As established repurposed drugs, they were there ready to use.
I defer to your expertise in chemistry on the armentatarium of clinical options, and intend to share what has been effective, reliable and well-tolerated in my personal and clinical experience . The Rx anti-histamine Azelastine is a nasal spray with excellent properties to both limit the effects of Covid on mast cells for sinusitis, and truncate the duration of illness. It's unnecessary, and perhaps quite literally overkills to get into antibiotics which will undermine the microbiome of the nasopharynx.
I am disappointed that my chemistry perspective of the working of these drugs based on their chemical structures didn’t seem to have enthused you much. Perhaps among the hundreds of keen followers you have for your presentations, I could be the only one who could be presenting a basic organic chemistry perspective, on the premise that chemistry drives biology. I was only explaining a perspective that hundreds of common drugs could be additionally anti virals. It doesn’t mean that the armentatarium have to be put to use immediately. I am only expanding the scope for repurposed drugs and it is always good to have options, in this case readily explorable and useable ones. Like Azelastine became a proven experience only after its day one several years ago, others too must follow its path. On anti biotics and the worry about microbiomes, I have in mind another perspective which I will write up separately. But the list of anti biotics I mentioned, to support my chemistry perspective, were not meant to be overkill. If you have freshly tested patient with heavy symptoms, the first priority is to kill his virus load and return him to normalcy quickly. Half the time the infection could be mixed and half the time the doctors prescribe anti biotics too if they suspect presence of a secondary infection too. They must provide anti virals also and I was only indicating the possibility that these molecules are both and are tailor made for the situation. By denying the patient an early recovery option in the name of preventing a possible future side effect ( gut or nasopharynx) and treating him only with peripherals and adjuvants, we are opening the scope for a residual viral load to take long term residence in the scope and thus long Covid presentations, which has been difficult to understand and treat and has affected millions. The treatment in this case will be just a week of these antibiotic cum anti viral, not prolonged or repetitive use and I am not sure if it should be a major concern. In the case of a this community scale infection like this, it is necessary to douse the viral load in the individual before it reaches a peak. In doing so, there is every chance that with early good treatments, his viral load will not be large enough to cause any spread in his family vicinity. In the process the family too gets the desired natural immunity from passive exposure. Over thousands of households in a community, this is stopping spread in the community and creation of natural herd immunity. A short strong treatment is thus a public good too. This is what happened in many parts of the world. Where this approach was shunned, like in USA, the virus refuses to exit. I find that the FLCCC recommendations too bank on slow treatments which may be adequate in the immediate run, but will not be in the long run, in terms of repeat infections and long Covid presentations.
I am continuing this post, as it got posted before I could complete.
The treatment in this case will be just for a week, hopefully not to be returned for a long time, so it should not be a big concern. There is another scenario here. Some strong early treatment will stop the viral growth in the individual at low level so that he will not be a transmitter in his family settings. Who, in turn, will gain natural immunity from passive exposure. Extended over thousands of households, this is stopping the virus spread in the community and gain of natural herd immunity. With no massive population level intervention like vaccination. This is what happened in many countries where the virus practically disappeared more than two years ago. Countries like USA, who in their wisdom, shunned such strong early treatments, are still struggling with the virus, with its never ending show of variants. And the suffering of long Covid in thousands and thousands of them. I find that the FLCCC protocols are also mild, adequate for a slow recovery of the patient from the infection without serious illness, but not adequate to prevent him from possible reinfections and long term issues.
I've gone down a pH rabbit hole recently. Turns out, SC2 likes pH to be in a particular range; pH < 6.2 or pH > 7.4 prevents viral fusion. Your fancy new nasal spray is extremely low pH (3.5). I'd be curious to hear if a "buffered" saline nasal spray (pH > 8) worked as well.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220906/Study-suggests-entry-of-SARS-CoV-2-requires-an-acidic-pH.aspx
Study suggests entry of SARS-CoV-2 requires an acidic pH [Sep 2022]
"The study results uncovered a previously unknown requirement of a specific pH range of 6.5 – 6.8 for successful cell membrane fusion and cytosolic release of virion particles by the SARS-CoV-2 virion..."
Nasal mucosa pH is around 6.6.
Thanks for sharing this David.
Yes, I am also aware of the acidic pH basis for the virus. That is why hundreds of common drugs are potential anti virals, because most of them are amine types providing basic pH. Many of these molecules are also Cationic Amphiphilic Drugs (CADs), molecules that pick up the acidity in lysosomes in the cells to become protonated ( cationic). This deprivation of pH ( acidity) to the virus is their mode of anti viral action.
Is that so ? Did you have an occasion to check it ? I would have thought that CPC could be strong salt like, nearly neutral. If any of you have lab access, please check it out .,that would be interesting. Years ago, I have evaluated CPC as an anti static additive in melamine-formaldehyde resin, basically a conductive material in a highly insulative medium. It confers strong conductive properties on the cured resin, as a strong salt. I that is what we were looking for. I did not find any abnormal behaviour in the cure process of the resin. A pH of 3.3 would have made the cure process extremely fast. There is a recent Japanese paper that describes why CPC is a good anti viral on SARS cov-2. Though biology centered, it does talk about electrostatic interaction.
Clinical trial here:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lansea/article/PIIS2772-3682(22)00046-4/fulltext
SARS-CoV-2 accelerated clearance using a novel nitric oxide nasal spray (NONS) treatment: A randomized trial
"The inherent low pH (3⋅5) and virion trapping capacity (hypromellose) of NONS augments the antiviral activity of NO."
The ingredients look ok , but
Alternative Names: Enovid, NORS, NONS, Sanotize
Active Ingredients: Sodium chloride, Citric acid, HPMC, Sodium nitrite, Benzalkonium Chloride
Brand Manufacturer: SaNOtize
Manufacturer Location: Israel
Re: Baobab....when I read your earlier article on it, I immediately ordered some and started taking it throughout the day. My intestines responded with a dramatic slow down, and altho there was no intestinal discomfort, I needed senna to induce any movement. Altho I stopped the Baobab, the effects took a few months to wear off!!! Any thoughts?
Interesting and the first report I have encountered like this. A small number of patients have had MCAS flares with Baobab. MCAS is fickle, and can result in both diarrhea and/or constipation. The duration of a month though is very puzzling, and makes me curious about other contributing factors.
I don't have any other sx of MCAS and no reason to suspect it, and consider myself very healthy. I AM one of those people who react oddly to many things, and most of my medical encounters involve the words "hmmmm, I've never seen anyone do this before" at some point.
I'll keep this atypical response which you reported in mind, and if I have any insights, will be sure to share them. Keep your eyes/ears out for the live podcast I'm doing with Jeff Tezak, CEO of Tiiga, which markets Baobab from small communities in Africa. You could ask him too, but hopefully will learn more about Baobab in general. I will be 5:30-7:00EST on Thursday, October 24th, and I'll post a link that week. We'll record it as well.
i'll be listening!
I started adding Baobab to Fage yogurt and that seems to be going very well. I am gradually moving the dose up and hope to get to 1 TBSP a day. I have gotten so many good tips from this substack and I consider this one of the best. My gut got ravaged after several rounds of IV antibiotics when dealing with post-op infections. Working to heal it.
That's your second commercial break Michelle. Thank you for sharing, and please don't post any more ads in this Substack.
fair enough!! :)