Why so many Covid vaccine injuries look like mental illness

Interview with Dr Rachel Wilkinson and me on Dr Josef’s podcast

This is on Spotify, because YouTube won’t permit uncensored discussion of post-acute sequelae of Covid and injury from the Covid shots. There is insightful discussion about low-dose sublingual ketamine from one of the world’s experts, Dr Rachel Wilkinson. And, it’s kind of fun to watch the realization in Dr Josef’s eyes as we roll out truth after truth.

Transcript of the podcast, thanks to my partner Pierre.

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A podcast that reveals the truth about drug side effects and the best strategies to manage them. And now your host, Dr. Joseph Wittering.

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What if your heart was failing, your brain fog so thick you couldn't form a sentence, and every doctor told you it was just anxiety. Well, long COVID and vaccine injuries are leaving thousands of people with crushing fatigue, nerve pain, and terrifying cognitive decline. And yet many are being misdiagnosed with psychiatric disorders and put on meds that make everything worse. So today I'm speaking with two experts who are sounding the alarm. Scott Marsland, a frontline clinician who became vaccine injured himself, and Dr. Rachel Wilkinson, a psychiatrist helping patients reverse cognitive decline using low dose ketamine. If you or someone you love was dismissed, gaslit, or told it's all in your head, this is a conversation that could change everything. Well, this is Scott and Rachel. Thank you so much for a Coming on to speak with me and my audience about vaccine injuries, specifically COVID vaccine injuries and long COVID and the treatments. The reason that I invited you on is, well, there's two things. One, I do worry that some people who have these vaccine injuries may be misdiagnosed with psychiatric conditions and unnecessarily placed on medications. But two, I've also seen some of my patients who have mental health problems or they've had some drug injuries from psychiatric meds.

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They get COVID or they get the vaccine, and then they start to do worse. It's like their symptoms just intensify, and sometimes for several months. I don't know much about that. Scott, I know you're over at the Leading Edge clinic, and you who really specialize in these vaccine injuries. So I was hoping you could share what does a like an mRNA vaccine injury look like? How does it present from the hundreds, or if not thousands of patients you've been working with over the years?

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So the Leading Edge clinic is a telemedicine clinic that I co-owned of Dr. Pierre Kory, and we opened it in February of 2022. And one of the things that my partner Pierre will often say is that vaccine injury is a new manifestation of an old syndrome, which is ME/CFS, or myalgic encephalitis, chronic fatigue. And so in that name, you have a description of some of the primary symptoms. Myalgic would be inflammation or fatigue of the scalinal muscles, encephalitis is inflammation of the brain, and then chronic fatigue. So the predominant symptoms that people experience have to do with impaired your cognition fatigue that's disproportionate to level of exertion. And then what's new and different, I would say, is the introduction of the spike protein, which unfortunately is about the most toxic protein introduced intentionally into people's bodies in human history, essentially. If you go through every single body system, you will find places that are targeted and negatively affected by the spike protein. And that's because not only does the spike attach to ACE2 receptors, it attaches to about 20 Any other receptors. A good example would be nicotinic receptors. In terms of the impact on patients' mental health and being misdiagnosed, one of the things that I learned about early on in my practice, and then it was interesting to meet Rachel and her colleague, Dr. Michalister, a couple of months ago and connect some dots But I came to understand early on that glutamate levels were exceedingly high in patients who presented to us with long haul or post-acute sick quality COVID-19 vaccine.

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The glutamate It is a neuroexcited terrain transmitter. It's essentially the on switch to the brain. I think of it as salt. You need a little bit of salt to make tasty food, but too much salt makes it inedible. When you have too much glutamate, it kills neurons, it erodes the myelin of the nerves, it destroys the axons where the meet like this. One of the early interventions that I began using, not out of my own original thoughts. I have a close colleague in Virginia, Dr. Chiji, who's a forensic psychiatrist from Nail. We met through a mutual patient, and we learned to They were using a glutamate antagonist called memantine. What happened was quite remarkable. You had patients who had previously been stable in their psychiatrist management of their anxiety or their depression or their ADHD, and all of a sudden, you were trying to talk them off the ledge. They were literally suicidal, homicidal. It's as if their med stopped working overnight. And one of the things that we used early on that made a big difference was memantine or nemenda, which is a drug that came to market in the '90s for dementia, and it actually doesn't work for dementia.

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But it's a mild or moderate glutamate antagonist. There are many patients who've come my way who originally were sent. Basically, they got workups by their primary care doctor. They were sent to neurologists, they were sent to cardiologists, endocrineologists, you name it. None of them could find anything because they're using conventional lab testing and radiologic studies which come up empty-hand because we're dealing with a biowequip. Then they would end up with the worst fate of all being told they had a conversion disorder and being sentenced to psychiatrist who then tried the whole slew of medications, including SSRIs, which often made the patients worse. Yeah, please.

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Well, Let me jump in here because there's so much that I want to ask you about, and I'm going to do it in a systematic way here. Just coming back to... For some people in my audience, they may not be even familiar with what the spike protein is and how that is involved in vaccine injury or long COVID. Could you just break that down just in real simple terms of where that comes from and why Why it's such a pain?

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The spike protein is a part of the virus, and it conveys instructions to the cells about how to behave. There's a qualitative and quantitative difference between spike that a person got from infection and spike that a person got from vaccination. That ties into the mRNA vaccines. Spike existed before the pandemic, but we're dealing with a particular manipulation of spike related to SARS-CoV-2. When the mRNA vaccinations, Pfizer and Moderna, particularly, were created, there was a manipulation which resulted in amplification of the spike protein, such that when the spike protein was injected, basically, when the vaccine was injected into our body, the instructions to ourselves to make spike protein were conveyed. Part of the tragedy of this is like, I do this with patients today. This is your hand. Let me come in to the camera. This is your open hand, and this is the spike protein. You can tell the difference between the two. But to our body, they look very similar. When our body made antibodies to spike protein, in many In many cases, it ended up targeting our own cells. That results in what we call autoimmune disease. Autoimmune is the immune system attacking itself.

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When you get sick from the virus, when you get COVID, that virus has had to make its way through your defenses, specifically the mucus membranes of your nose and your eyes, your mouth. When it gets trapped in the mucus of your mouth, your nose, and the surface of your eyes, your immune system gets a chance to take a whack at it, like a kid at a party, whacking a pinata with a bat. The macrophages, the white blood cells that are targeted with, if that's a pathogen and it engulfs it, and then it digests it and it poops it out. What happened with the mRNA vaccines is what was not supposed to happen. The mRNA was supposed to stay in the deltoid muscle and essentially be gone within a couple of hours. Well, what happened was it got into the bloodstream, became systemic, and the amount of spike was exponentially greater than what you would have dealt with if you got an infection. Did I break it down simply enough or is it Something like that, yeah, something.

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Would that mean because you have more spike exposure, potentially there's a greater chance that you form one of these autoimmune?

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A hundred and ten %. A hundred and ten %. So not only is the quantity greater. Those spike proteins were modified so that they had an even stronger attraction to ACE2 and other receptors, but ACE2 receptors in particular. Also, Also, what happened in worst case scenario is that someone had such a heavy load of instructions to make MRNA that their DNA essentially got hijacked, and they are making a spike in perpetuity. These are patients who we talk about them being in the 25,000 Club. You do an IgG test, which is measure of the antibody being produced by spike, and three years after they got vaccinated, their level is still above 25,000. That means that they are ongoing making antibodies against the spike proteins. They have this ongoing triggering of an autoimmune response from really gastricly consequences.

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So there's two things happening. One is the virus, but also especially the vaccine Which reduces some coating into the cells, and then the cells are now making spike protein, and then the body has reacting to it, creating auto antibodies against it, and it's probably hitting the spike protein that the cells are making, but it's also damaging tissue around the body.

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Exactly. Is that what's happening? To make matters even worse, I'm going to say that the people who decided not to get vaccinated made the lucky or the correct decision. I myself got two Pfizer shots, and they were both from bad batches, and I'm vaccinated. I didn't make that decision. There are many people, 30% of the US population, who didn't get the shots because they were suspicious or otherwise philosophically opposed. They might have the idea that they dodged a bullet, but unfortunately, they didn't because there's this dynamic called shedding. Our body is packaging up the spike protein. It's packaging up the lipid nanoparticles, and We're breathing it out, we're sweating it out, men are ejaculating it out in their semen, and then that gets breathed in or it lands on the eyes of an innocent person, or if you have a sexual A partner and a male ejaculates into that partner, it goes in through the semen, and then that person receives that spike in varying levels of burden, and then they can start to act like a vaccinated person. Basically, Nobody has escaped this.

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I do wonder about how common it is. I was spoked into getting it right at the start. I had Moderna, two of the original ones. My sisters have had it, my in-laws have had it, my parents have had it. I think my dad still gets it, even though I tell him not to get it. I think my mom as well. How common is it that people who are exposed to this will go on to develop this devastating condition? I mean, is this a one in 100? Is this a one in a thousand? Is there any epidemiology that could speak to how common this is?

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Well, I think that you can step out of the medical arena and look at the work of people like Ed Dow who wrote a book about all-cause increased mortality. All-cause increased mortality globally has gone up anywhere from 10% to 40%, depending on where in the world you are. That is a very strong signal. If you talk to people who are in the insurance industry, health insurance and life insurance industry, there's an unmistakable signal. It mystifies me why the people in those industries don't speak about this, because they're certainly taking it in the shorts in terms of losing money. I don't have a crystal ball. Because our government has been so obfuscating around the data, it's really hard to discern the percentages. But I can tell you that I can't go out in public, wait in line in the grocery store, go out to dinner, engage people. Did you ever see that movie, The sixth Sense, with Bruce Willis? There's a kid who said, I see dead people. I feel like that kid, except I see vaccine-injured people. I listen to people, I talk to people, and they have a myriad of health issues that are emerging.

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People who never used to have severe allergies. They have severe allergies. People talk about being in a prayer group and everyone's getting cancer. Or everyone I talk to knows someone who is like, Oh, my goodness, she was 30 years old. She ate a vegan diet. She exercised every day, and she was found dead in her bed the next morning. With my awareness from what I do, I simply cannot step out the door with seeing it. I've been in health care for 30 years. This is just a different world that we're living. You look so concerned. I want to reach out and give you a hug. Sorry. Welcome to my world.

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Listen, I bore the brunt of the concern at the IMA conference. That's where I was really baptized into all of the problems with the vaccine injuries. I met Alex, who's your friend. I am concerned, and that's why it's so important that my audience hears from both of you.

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Well, there was one thing I just wanted to make sure I got in here, and that has to do with a particular group of people with iliac venous compression. Have you ever heard of that? No. It's less than matter what you answer. Ileac venous compression or May 3rder syndrome is something that I never heard of. I didn't learn about 30 years. I worked in emergency setting for 14 years. But on autopsy, in terms of epidemiologic data, 30% of the population has this. Essentially, there's an anatomic vulnerability where the kidneys sit, the right iliac artery crosses the left iliac vein, and it compresses. We can talk about vaccine injury, fundamentally, as an autoimmune syndrome. But one of the things that happens, that I have seen in 100% of the patients I've tested, and I would confidently assert that 100% of the population is experiencing this is amyloid-fevered micropot. There's an abnormal type of clotting that you, Rachel, and I, and everyone else is experiencing, which was not present in everyone before from the spike protein. When a person had pre-existing iliacneus compression, and then they develop inflammation of the lining of their blood vessels because of an injury from the spike protein, and they develop abnormal clotting, What was mild or moderate can become severe.

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You develop this focal coagulopathy in the pelvis, which can classically manifest as pain in the lower extremities, pain in the abdomen, lower back, and then it can expand to result in chest pain, dyspnea, headaches, neuropathies. The reason I bring this up is because I'm talking of two psychiatrists, and I have had four patients who had iliac venous compression that wasn't recognized or treated. Over time, they developed such a severe level of antibodies to their nervous system that they essentially began to manifest someone who had severe mental illness. They had severe anxiety, they had crazy panic attacks, they were having cognitive issues, and they got shunted to the psychiatrist, got put on a slew of meds, most of which made things worse. What happened was when they finally found their way to me, having diagnosed and helped treat more than 30 people were billionaires in depression, which is crazy, crazy number of people for someone doing what I do, which shows how common it is that when it got diagnosed and we started to properly treat it, we put them on anticaragulence, we did an MR-venigram, we got them to an expert colleague in Colorado who's one of the best interventional radiologist in the world, Dr. Bookspenser, and we corrected the issue.

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Guess what? Their mental health issues started to resolve. Their neuropathic issues started to resolve. I think that every psychiatrist in the United States and worldwide actually needs to know what miliatectomies compression and the third or something is. Yes, because it is integrally connected to some of the most severely injured people who are manifesting psychiatric symptoms.

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So a question I'd have for you, Scott and Rachel as well. Maybe you could both take a crack at this one because if you could really just bring to life, I know I asked you at the beginning, what are the symptoms? We said it was chronic myelodegencephalitis, and we listed the symptoms. But maybe you could just bring to life what the experience is like for someone who develops this. They get the vaccine, and then is it a couple of days later that it develops? Is it a couple of weeks? Is it a couple of months? What do they start to notice? How do the symptoms evolve? Perhaps you could just share a vignette or two just to bring it to life for the audience so they could almost imagine how this might turn up in someone.

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Rachel, I'm tired of hearing myself talk, and I'd love to hear if you had some vignettes.

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I can share a couple, but you are very much subspecialized in this area, Scott, so maybe take a breather and I'll share a few thoughts. My practice, I've been in practice 20 years, has been focused on severe and persistent mental illness. I did not get the COVID vaccines because of a prior injury with Gardasil, where I was told by an oncologist, T. Monk, that I would be disabled. And I learned through lifestyle and supplements to largely reverse that. And I live independently, very free and very employed. What I've seen over the course of the pandemic in my population, which again is severely ill, is exactly what Scott described, where previously they had signs of either localized brain inflammation or systemic across the body inflammation. And that's what they came in to see me with, and the various, they psychiatric complaints such as anxiety or depression. But on further questioning, many of our patients don't come in with just one problem. Even if you call it psychiatric, they come in with multiple body issues. And if you bother to ask what what their energy is like, what their sleep is like, how far can they run, how many stairs can they climb before they get winded, you'll find that many of them have these systemic issues.

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And what COVID did, even for those non-vaccinated, is it enhanced all of those problems. So for me, I saw patients that were more fatigued, more insomniac. Some patients, and these were rare but notable, had no prior history, for example, of severe disease like psychosis, which is loss of to tell reality, presence of delusional thinking like paranoia, and even hallucinations like seeing or hearing things that nobody else could see or hear. Prior to COVID or prior to the COVID vaccines, they did not have any of this. And then once COVID hit or post-vaccine, they had variations of it, even up to severe psychosis. In addition, we saw a greatly enhanced population. Again, some normal. Initially, some already had seen me as patients with new onset, sudden and profound loss of cognition. They could not think properly. They would stop mid-sentence, forgetting what they were saying. They would misplace things at home. Family said they looked like they're getting dementia, except in fast forward. So we've seen a variety of these things. The most severe patients for my clinic have persisted in their illness despite multiple interventions. I'm sure Scott can relate to that. But by and large, with a focus on anti-inflammatory lifestyle, anti-inflammatory supplements, and a real educational approach as to what causes cells to get sick, inflamed, and die really motivates these patients to clean up their diet, avoid soda, avoid a lot of environmental causes of inflammation, get to the gym, and then also using psychiatric medicines that are largely repurposed, that fight that glutamate toxicity that Scott was talking about, which is the final common pathway toward brain cell death that we want to avoid.

[00:25:38.880] - Speaker 3

I suspect, as Scott alluded to, May Turner syndrome, that a lot of these patients likely had venous flow problems from coagulopathies, even inside their brains. We don't commonly do brain biopsies, so couldn't prove it. But I would wonder how much of that was localized versus systemic. And as we see in my profession, inflammation is malignant. So what starts in the rest of the body can weaken the blood-brain barrier, enter the brain, overactivate the brain's immune system, and then perpetuate the cause. I'll pause there, and then Scott can Can you just outline some other cases that he may have seen that might differ from the ones I mentioned.

[00:26:20.060] - Speaker 2

Personally, I have seen more than 1,500 patients for post-acute sequoia of COVID, which is in lay press, called long haul or vaccine agree. Our practice has seen more than 10,000 patients in the last three years for everything from acute COVID to long haul to vaccine. And there are more manifestations that I can count and pretty much go from head to toe. So hair loss, hearing loss, tinnitus, floaters in the eyes, decreased vision, loss of taste and smell, lymph node enlargement, shortness of breath, chest pain, myalgias, joint pain, dysrhythmias, dysregulation of the gut, whether it be constipation, diarrhea, bloating, maldigestion, generalized weakness, tremors, paracetias, meaning numbness or tingling, and neuropathy, being painful. The nerve sensations, dysregulated endocrine function, so hyperthyroid, hyperthyroid, adrenal fatigue, cancers. So now we're about four years out from the initiation of these vaccines. In addition to treating long, long, vaccine injury, my partner Pierre and I do adjunctive cancer care. You would Anyway, I would think, knowing what I know, that more of the cancer patients would be vaccinated. But actually, about 70% of our cancer patients are unvaccinated, which is a testimony to the effect of Shady. People should… Well, there's so much to say here, but you know what?

[00:28:20.100] - Speaker 2

I want to sprinkle a little bit of hope, as I think Rachel did. That is...

[00:28:26.640] - Speaker 1

Well, we'll sign the for the end. But no hope yet. We're suffering for now. What I want to understand, though, is… I guess, my first question would be, is there a delay between Getting the vax and then how these symptoms present in people. I'd like to understand that a bit more.

[00:28:52.220] - Speaker 2

It absolutely depends. When we first started doing this work, first of all, no one taught us in medical school how to treat a biowequip or what the timeline is. One of our most important indicators was temporal association, meaning I got the jab and I passed out, or I got the jab and I developed this tremor, literally within a half hour. Especially in the beginning, we saw patients sleep. Then the longer that we've been in practice, because we've had our practice over three years now, now we're seeing people who It's like Rip Van Wynkel waking up after 200 years. Oh, my God, I think I'm vaccine injured. I'll use myself as an example. I got the single worst Pfizer shot ever given. Killed and injured more people, according to federal vaccine adverse event reporting safety data. The worst Pfizer ever given. Then I got another Pfizer about a month later. I was working I was working in the emergency setting. I was practically hugging COVID patients in intense situations. I did not identify... I was even treating long, long vaccine injury and didn't identify as being vaccine injured until About a year and a half after I got the shots.

[00:30:19.550] - Speaker 2

The way that it happened was my wife said, I think you need to go see the doctor because you're not hearing as well. I was like, It's not me not hearing as well. You're mumbling. You could have knocked me over with a feather when I went to the doctor and the audiologist said, Oh, Mr. Marzlin, do you qualify for hearing needs? I was like, What? What are you talking about? That's not me. Then what began to unfold. Now, the next thing that happened was I was born with heart disease, but I've been very healthy, functional. I ate a vegan diet for a decade. I went to the cardiologist for the annual ECHO, an echocardiogram, which is an ultrasound heart. A week later, I got this very concerning, serious message from the nurse saying, Mr. Marzlin, Dr. Mouser would like you to call him to discuss the results of your echo. I didn't need to hear anymore. They're like, That's really bad news. He calls me, we talk, and he said, Scott, I need you to start these four medications. I need you to get a referral to the Rochester Heart Failure Clinic. He's like, Your ejection fraction is 40%, and all four of your valves are leaking.

[00:31:33.680] - Speaker 2

I was like, Blanky, blanky, blank. What? Are you kidding me? Then I started to put the pieces together. I realized I would not have been able to talk as fast as I'm talking to you without getting out of breath. I realized this crept up on me. Then I was like, Oh, yeah. Well, I've got neuropathy in my left leg that I didn't I used to have. Then so I started looking at myself like I look at my patients. I was like, Oh, I do have fatigue. I do have my algo. I do have joint pain that I didn't used to have. I am forgetting where I put the keys. In fact, I was forgetting names of people I've known in my entire life, and I've got tinnitus. It's just like, I don't want to give you... They call it the choir, the recital. I don't want to give my choir recital all my ales, but basically, the most stunning The thing to me was, holy shit. I had an ejection fraction in a healthy person's normally 55, 65 %. And now all of a sudden, I'm in heart failure. And now I'm realizing, oh, when I take my socks off at night, I see the lines around my ankles.

[00:32:47.010] - Speaker 2

I'm accumulating fluid in my low extremism. So I think that there are many people out there who just think they're getting older. They're like, Well, I'm not exercising enough. Yeah, floaters. Yeah, I can't get an erection anymore. Yeah, my periods are crazy irregular, or I had gone into venipose, and now my periods are back. There's just so many things that they can explain away. But when you start seeing things through the lens, now, how do you discern? Strictly on a laboratory level, because you can't argue with the cells. The cells don't buy, as our colleague Dr. Maien Cole, the pathologist, says, 100% of patients who we draw blood on and we send it to our colleague, Dr. Jordan Vaughn, and building an elevator, who looks at it through electron microscope, 100% of everyone we test has agronomal thought. People who are severely injured, vaccine-injured. Was it your father or your father-in-law that gets boosted?

[00:33:58.130] - Speaker 1

I think both of them. I think both of them. Getting boosted.

[00:34:00.870] - Speaker 2

I would bet you $1,000 that if we tested their blood, they would have three, three and a half, four out of four amyloid parenchyma. It just goes with the territory. You cannot argue with that. We have banked blood from before the pandemic. A typical physician will say, Oh, well, how do you know that didn't exist before the pandemic? I said, Well, I know damn well it didn't exist before the pandemic because there's a lot of blood that we have was banked before the pandemic. Yes, you would see in someone who had uncontrolled diabetes, terrible dyslipidemia, they were 150 pounds overweight, they might have had amyloid tumor microclaudia. But guess what level it was? It was a one. That's what we considered representative of chronic disease. Now I have a 20-year-old come in who never drank, never smoked, always exercised, high performer, because a lot of action-injured people are like type A high performers. Ceos of companies, top of their field, whatever it is they did, were super mom, whatever, best mom ever. Now they're terribly vaccine-injured. You check their blood, and They are riddled with abnormal clotting. This stumps the chumps. You go to a hematologist and they check.

[00:35:23.320] - Speaker 2

They use the tools that they have. They check a D-dimer, they check a PTT, a PTI-NR, they check the CBC. I'm I'm sorry, Mr. And Mrs. Jones, your blood is normal. I don't know what the problem is. I think it's in your head. I'm going to send you to Dr. Wilkinson. I'm going to say, if they're fortunate enough to find their way to me or my colleagues at a place like the, we're like, Yeah, boy, glad you're here. Let's do some things about this. Okay.

[00:35:51.720] - Speaker 1

It sounds like a laboratory from your experience doing this, it's a really great way to confirm diagnosis of a spike protein injury, whether from COVID or the Vax.

[00:36:06.100] - Speaker 2

Yes and no. Yes and no. So typical labs, it is very common for a vaccine-injured patient to have completely normal labs and completely normal There's a lot of studies. You need to know what you're looking for. You need to do some types of tests that typically insurance doesn't pay for. In the psychiatric neurologic realm, I'll give you one example. There's an old-fashioned test called an A/B, well, old-fashioned. It's new in that more recently, you can check the blood. It's an A/B 4240. Basically, you're looking for the burden of amyloid proteins in the brain. It's quite something when I'm talking to someone who's 40 and I say, You know what? Your A/B 4240 is so severe. I'm surprised you don't have dementia already. You are well along the road to dementia, and they fall off their chair. And I'm like, Well, this spike protein in and of itself can provoke the formation of blood proteins, and it can become an amyloid. I think the I would describe that- I was just going to ask because I want to make sure that I understood you correctly.

[00:37:20.840] - Speaker 1

So you could have the abnormal clotting but not have long-haul symptoms or the the Vax injury symptoms. That's just something that has happened now. But it's not like you have abnormal clotting, and so that means you have a Vax injury. That's not a way of doing that, right?

[00:37:43.440] - Speaker 2

I'm going to see if I can tease out what I think the question is in the question. That is, are there people who have 4 to 4 amyloid fibrinolytomy or microclotting who are asymptomatic?

[00:37:54.780] - Speaker 1

Yeah. I guess it's coming from a place where I'm like, how do we Is there a good way of knowing this is long haul, this is a vax injury? Is it a good way to know clinically that it's like, if you have one, two, and three, I see these symptoms, this is really indicative, or it's like the symptoms, not so much, but we've got these labs. If we see these things, it's almost certain you have it. I think it's more coming from a place of, How do you How to diagnose these things?

[00:38:32.900] - Speaker 2

You just came from the IMA conference, which used to be the FLCC Alliance. Anyone watching this can go. If they type in FLCC Alliance, They'll take them to the IMA. They can look at the protocols for vaccine injury long haul and see a long list of symptoms. I would say that most of what we do in our diagnosis of vaccine injury long haul is based upon clinical symptoms, and which can be learned by any clinician that is curious and cares to learn. I don't need blood testing to recognize vaccine injury. When I treat it empirically, most people get better to a greater or lesser degree. That's the world I live in.

[00:39:26.020] - Speaker 1

Are there some symptoms where it's maybe one symptom or two symptoms or three, where it's like they're more like, I guess, what I would say pathognomonic. It's like they're so characteristic of the illness that if you see this cluster, it's almost like a slam dunk.

[00:39:50.860] - Speaker 2

I would say yes. There's going to be a lot of overlap. If you talk to a Lyme doctor, they're going to say, Oh, he's got Lyme disease, or he talks to someone who specializes in mold or microtoxins, or say, Oh, he's got microtoxins. I have a hammer, I see nails. The difference is we're still emerging from a pandemic with a protein that has affected the entire population. Not just the population, it's affected our cats and our dogs, which we don't even... The red blood cells of cats and dogs have a much more similarity to humans than the blood cells of a goat, for instance. That's a whole other ball of wax. Myalgic encephalitis chronic fatigue syndrome. If people have Especially when you have someone who's like, Hey, I'm 40 years old. Before the pandemic, I was in the best shape of my life ever. Now I can't remember where I put the keys, and I'm really anxious all the time. My sleep is disturbed, and I I can barely walk up the stairs without feeling tired in my muscle. It's like, Dude, you've got injury from the spike. So cognitive symptoms, abnormal fatigue, disproportionate to the level of exercise, especially I'm not going to say, I'm not going to go to something that emerged without a good explanation.

[00:41:18.010] - Speaker 2

They went to the doctor and the doctor said, your blood pressure is good, your heart rate's good, your laps are fine. I don't think you're having this. You need to go on vacation.

[00:41:25.940] - Speaker 1

Am I answering your question? Yeah, that's perfect. It sounds like there's this core Of course, a group of symptoms like the fatigue, the cognitive problems, just feeling crummy. You can't find other explanations. Then I guess on top of that, when people get massively hurt, they'll start to develop the neuropathy, the POTS-type symptoms, and then you stack on these more systemic manifestations, and that's put on top of that core.

[00:41:56.300] - Speaker 2

I would say that one of the things that I think is accentuated in vaccine injury versus post-acute supply of COVID is the neuropathic symptoms, especially the neuropathy and the paraseizures, balance issues, cognitive issues. I suspect that is because there is such a larger ongoing production of antibodies that are targeting your nervous system. It's It's like a snowball gaining in speed, going downhill and getting bigger and bigger and bigger. It's just like if you have underlying abnormal clotting and you don't recognize it and address it, it will... This is one of the things I tell my patients who are... They come to me with one foot in the conventional medical system. They're listening to their system docs. They're very unlike the people who first came to see us who worship my My partner, Dr. Kory, and they're like, Hey, you guys run the ball. Flcc was ahead of the curve, whatever you say. The patients I see today, they're much more skeptical, and they're still listening to what their primary doctor, neurologist or cardiologist, who really, I'm sorry, they have no idea what I'm I'm not kidding about because they haven't been curious and they haven't bothered to learn.

[00:43:19.120] - Speaker 2

It's not that they're not smart, well-educated. They could absolutely learn these things, and it wouldn't even take that long, but they have to be intellectually curious. Those patients come to me and I say, Dude, You've got four out of four amyloid-fevered microclimate, and I think you need to start anticoagulation yesterday. They say, Well, what's going to happen if I don't? I said, There's two things that are very possibly going to happen. One is Eventually, you're going to start developing neuropathic symptoms. Basically, your body is going to start attacking your nervous system because of what's going on with your blood. The next thing is, good chance you're going to develop cancer. Why is that? What does blood coagulation have to do with cancer? Well, normally, from the day we are born, our body makes mistakes. When we make mistakes, when we make proteins that we're not supposed to, generally, our body says, Oh, there's a mistake. Let's try and fix it. If they can't fix it, okay, well, let's destroy it and break it down and recycle it. Metastatic cancer cells are like You can think of before the pandemic, if a metastatic cancer cell ended up in your bloodstream, it stood very little chance of surviving.

[00:44:38.460] - Speaker 2

It's like taking a newborn child in Alaska and putting it outside the igloo. If the cold doesn't kill it, a polar bear is going to be. It doesn't stand much of a chance. But now we've got microclotting. What happens is the cancer cell burrows, literally, it burrows into the microclot, and it evades It's the immune system, and it has mobility. So now you've got metastatic cancer cells which have transportation and shielding from your immune system. And this is one of the reasons why we have turbo cancers. While you have someone who today they had a normal mammogram, and a month later, they're dead from stage 4 metastatic breast cancer.

[00:45:27.140] - Speaker 1

So I wanted to I want to shift gears now and talk a little bit about prognosis. I know this is cutting edge. Covid happened in 2020. We're five years down the line from when it kicked off. Scott, what's happening to the people that you're seeing? Are some of them getting better? How many get better? How many people are staying the same? Are some people getting worse? What do you see at the Leading Edge clinic?

[00:45:58.200] - Speaker 2

Do you know what? I have never been I'm more hopeful and happy to go to work than I am today. Part of it is because of meeting people like Dr. Rachel Lawrence. Pierre and I had a Zoom session with Rachel and her colleague, Dr. Mitchell Easter, It worked out two months ago, and it completely changed our lives because it's like we came together, and Mich and Rachel have been using low-dose sublingual ketamine to heal the nervous system and brain of each patient that they see and having 90 to 95%, Rachel can modify that if she wants, but I'm not going to say 90 to 95% success rate. You simply do not see success like that in medicine, treating pathology. We've learned about chlorine dioxide, which has been the third rail in medicine. People have been killed, murdered, assassinated, sent to prison. We're talking about it. We're using it. We're talking to patients about it. We're signing consensus Because chlorine dioxide is the universal antidote to all pathogens. The intelligence agencies have known about this since the '50s. It's something they don't want everyday people to know about. Because if everyday people had chlorine dioxide in their medicine cabinet, they've got a ton on mandates, they would not need most of the medical care that we provide.

[00:47:23.960] - Speaker 2

Because chlorine dioxide kills the flu, it kills MRSA, it kills Ebola, it kills anthrax, It certainly kills spike. It treats Lyme disease. Across the board, you can give it to babies, you can give it to elderly people. It's amazing stuff. We're using DMSO to correct protein misfolding. You see someone who is nonverbal, barely able to walk and use DMSO, and they start talking and walking. I mean, these are true stories. A kid, three-year-old with Down syndrome, couldn't walk or talk. Parents started giving them oral DMSO, and a week later, they're walking and talking. This is just crazy, miraculous medicine that we're experiencing. The farther along we have gone, the more that we have learned about things that are cheap, they're safe, and they are curative. I have had to learn to use the word cure. Really, it was not something that I ever used in 30 years of medicine. My patients had to say, Mr. Marzlin, I think we're curing something. And me, I'm like, You know what? You're right. Okay, let's use that word. And my answer-I want to keep asking you if I'm answering your question.

[00:48:40.560] - Speaker 1

Now, is this cure potentially patients that they don't need to take the anticoagulants It's not anymore. It goes away or is it a maintenance?

[00:48:50.380] - Speaker 2

A bigger answer to your question around, do people get better? How many people? Almost all of our patients get better more or less, sooner or later. There's a tiny % of patients who I bang my head against the wall every day, and I carry them with me in my mind and in my heart because I want to figure out how to fix them, too. But I actually, happily, I've come to terms of the idea of working my way out of a job. Unlike most medical doctors, really deep down, they know that they don't necessarily want to cure your diabetes because who's going to come and pay the bills? I feel like I am more than happy to work my way out of a job to cure patients. What am I seeing? I am seeing patients spike antibody levels come down. I'm seeing their micro clotting get better. I'm seeing their symptom burden improve. The low-dose ketamine, I didn't have a DEA license for a decade because it was a huge pain in the ass. You needed to prescribe control substances. After Rachel and Mitch and Pierre and I met, I got my DEA license in almost 24 hours flat.

[00:50:12.190] - Speaker 2

I've written 50 prescriptions for low-dose I mean, in the last five weeks, 100% of my patients have either had neutrality or remarkable improvement in a very wide range of symptoms, everything from cognitive issues to neuropathy, to anxiety, to depression, to insomnia, to paraseas, to taste, to smell, to vision, to hearing. It's really mind boggling. Only three of them had very brief... Two of them had dizziness for five minutes after the first dose. One of them had dizziness for a half hour after the second dose. Rachel could tell you more about that, but I'm just going to say, man, I have never seen anything like it. Fifty patients, one month, nobody harmed, everybody neutral or better, only side effects of a dizziness. It's just one month.

[00:51:10.480] - Speaker 1

This is some cutting-edge stuff.

[00:51:12.700] - Speaker 2

I love seeing your jaw.

[00:51:14.120] - Speaker 3

It makes you crazy.

[00:51:15.180] - Speaker 2

Rachel- I love it.

[00:51:18.740] - Speaker 1

No. Hey, listen, people think I'm crazy, so you got a soft spot in my heart. I believe you. But Dr. Rachel, what is low dose ketamine? I'm used to the ketamine that people might use for treatment-resistant depression, the doses where you actually dissociate. Some people will even hallucinate on them. How low are we talking compared to the doses that psychiatrists would give someone for treatment-resistant depression, which are quite similar to the recreational doses that people might take? How similar is it?

[00:51:57.860] - Speaker 3

Just filling out from what Scott I was saying, there is this process that we're learning about, mamalian physiology, whereby all body cells can get sick and die, and then you can help that process with various tools. We have more tools now in our toolkit. The next question is, how do you restore cells that have been lost to scar tissue, which leads in my field, your field, to cognitive decline? I have found through battling severe mental illness that many of our patients over time, no matter what their initial diagnosis, PTSD, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, treatment-resistant depression, they all develop this cognitive decline over time. And as we know, for example, bipolar disorder increases risk of Parkinson's about five-fold. And I think you can extrapolate out almost all major neuropsychiatric condition endpoints ends up being dementia, which is this end result of a chronic inflammatory process that we've not previously been watching for because the field of psychiatry was taught to target individual symptoms or over-compartimentalize these things and think of them as separate. They actually share properties within cells and what ketamine does at low dose, not a high toxic dose, which can overwhelm the cell and kill it.

[00:53:17.940] - Speaker 3

As you mentioned, those signs can be hallucinations, dissociation. In my view, these are signs that you have given the patient toxic amount. Now, my peers would probably just I agree with that, but after watching my patients, I fully believe that low dose sublingual is the best approach with using ketamine versus IV, which is 100 % bioavailable. The dose that you're given is the dose that you get in the blood. Intranasal is 50 %, approximately, sublingual is somewhere between 20 and 30 %. So at my practice, most patients will start at 25 milligrams sublingual, and then they'll titrate up. That means gradually rise up to as much as 175, depending on their tolerance. Now, I tell the patients, there's really no lab or brain scan that I can use to tell me the right dose for you, but we always start low, build slowly, and then constantly monitor for those toxicity symptoms, which you mentioned, Dr. Joseph. Some of my patients, particularly those with pre-existing systemic inflammation, will not tolerate the 25 milligrams, so we cut the dose down even further to six or seven milligrams to start. What we have found, especially when comparing to those that get the IV or intranasal, is the low dose sublingual ketamine patients will gradually show improvement over time Because the half life of ketamine is so short, 3, 4 hours, they have enough time for their kidneys to clear, which is one of the major concerns of high dose ketamine, is kidney damage, bladder irritation, for example.

[00:54:58.320] - Speaker 3

We don't see much of that at all. They gradually build the dose, tolerate more, and then you see slow improvements in those inflammatory features that Scott was describing. They describe a mental clarity. Initially, for the first six months, they may have some signs of remembering traumas that have occurred to them. So it is used in some settings with counseling to help with PTSD. And then there's this middle clinical stage somewhere between 6 and 18 months, where they start to regain function. Their sense has become heightened. We see one of my partner, Mitchell's patients, regained function of her ulnar nerve after years of damage, for example. Patients will start to recognize and be very present in their surroundings, like a reversed association. And then there's this last stage where we've actually had patients' IQs go up on formal neuropsychiatric testing. I do the MOCA, the Montreal Cognitive Assessment. It's a memory test that's pretty easy to administer in my clinic. We see improvements in that over time. And then finally, we have had some patients who initially had formal neuropsychological testing, diagnosing early dementia, cognitive impairment. And after about two years of using low dose sublingual ketamine, by the way, labs did not decline over that period, very well tolerated, they have reversed out of that cognitive condition, and for all intents and purposes, do not appear demented whatsoever.

[00:56:25.780] - Speaker 3

The mechanisms, I believe, that are enhanced with low dose are the sustained and consistent production of the growth hormone, brain-derived neurotrophic factor. There's a receptor that's responsible for leading to cell death and glutamate toxicity called the NMDA receptor. Ketamine does have a blocking capacity for that receptor, so I believe that is useful. But again, at high doses, it's not enough to prevent the toxicity reaction. So the dose is very much important in this case. I'll finish with this. I told you five and a half years ago, we developed this protocol, Scott knows this, between 25 and 175 milligrams sublingual. Just in June of 2024, there was a randomized placebo-controlled clinical trial, Phase 2, out of King's College London, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Taiwan, and China, that validated these results in a group of treatment-resistant depression patients within a dose range of 30 milligrams sublingual to 180. And I believe that is moving into phase three clinical trials, and it will be commercialized soon. So that's an overview of what we've been up to. As Scott mentioned, we've seen improvements of virtually all neuropsychiatric conditions that we've encountered, even ones that we were not expecting. My partner, Mitch Lester, has seen improvement in ALS, and I mentioned my patients with severe and persistent mental illness, so it's pretty amazing.

[00:57:59.420] - Speaker 1

And Dr. Rachel, when you... Oh, sorry, Scott, jump in. Go for it.

[00:58:05.740] - Speaker 2

What I want to piggyback on that is to say that when Rachel and Mitch and Pierre and I met, I had a hypothesis that because of a lot of the things we do with our patients already, that we might see more rapid results. Just a couple of examples. We use low-dose naltrexone, which if you look at the cells of the blood-brain barrier, it's leaky, they're like this. They should be like this. If you look at the cells of the gut, someone's like, your gut, they're like this. Glutamate foods like chicken skin, berries, bananas, garbanzo beans, gluten and dairy, high glutamate foods, the glutamate will go down in between the cells. It'll get to blood, go to your brain and it will elevate the glutamate. Using the LDN tightens up those cells for the blood, brain barrier, and the gut. We use lithium orotate, which is really the Impecampus supplement that modulates neurotransmitters. It brings high ones low, it brings low ones high, and it decreases neuroinflamm, protects the hippocampus. Almost many of our patients are on that. I'm trying to think of one, Bacopa. We use Bacopa, which is an Arvedic mess that's been around for 3,000 years.

[00:59:19.950] - Speaker 2

It's an amazing supplement that knocks, spike off of nicotinic receptors, modulates neurotransmitters. Part of why that's so important, nicotinic receptors are where acetylcholine comes from. Acetylcholine is really important to good neurologic function, and it's really important to good control musculoskeletal movement. When people have impaired musculoskeletal function, which a lot of people with myelodipencephalitis, chronic disease syndrome have, and they've got chronic impairment, making sure that they're producing adequate amounts of acetylcholine that don't have spike on the motor vein receptors is important. I think that because we are doing these things already, and we use Ivermectin, Ivermectin doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, but if the blood-brain barrier is leaky, it will. Then it helps decrease inflammation in the brain and a neutralized fight. I think that's why I keep texting stories to Mitch and Rachel on a daily basis. I have this patient, their first dose, they're like, Oh, my God, my fiberglass nerve pain reduced 90% after the first dose. For my 8 out of 10 migraine that I've had for the last 11 months, with each dose, it went from an eight to a seven to a six to a five. Then it went from a whole brain to behind the eye.

[01:00:44.160] - Speaker 2

These are just spectacular changes. I think that we've tilled the soil, we've planted seeds in really fertile soil.

[01:00:51.760] - Speaker 1

Just practical questions here, Dr. Rachel. Do you take one of these Is it a troche that the ketamine is compounded into?

[01:01:04.000] - Speaker 3

It is called a troche.

[01:01:04.880] - Speaker 1

Okay. Will patients take a troche every day? Is that how the dosing is done?

[01:01:13.900] - Speaker 3

It is an amount of the troche. Initially, my patients will cut it into quarters and it's scoured. The compounding pharmacies will mix ketamine powder into a medium that then melts, reconstitutes, and then it hardens into a tray of squares, which are called trocheys. And then, gradually, as they build up their tolerance, they'll increase that dose. Once they reach their happy place, we call it the right dose for them, it's not toxic, they're getting benefit, then we ask the pharmacist to consolidate all the dose into one trochey to make it more economical and easier to take.

[01:01:45.940] - Speaker 2

Joseph, we use not just the troche, it's because we see patients all over the United States. Some of our patients are using 50 milligram per ml ketamine liquid. A bottle will have a dropper, 1 ml dropper, so 10 drops, something the tongue is equivalent to a quarter of the tropie. Ketamine is flexible that way. If a pharmacist or a compounded pharmacy doesn't want to make tropies, they can compound it into a dropper.

[01:02:17.580] - Speaker 1

Rachel, when you come off, so eventually, is this something patients will stay on long term, or are they able to come off? Do they have any difficulties getting off the ketamine eventually?

[01:02:29.290] - Speaker 3

I haven't seen difficulties getting off of it in terms of drug withdrawal, for example. So it's very flexible. There are stages to the treatment. For example, the first year, many patients are coming off of all of their old psychiatric medicines, including stimulants. They just don't need them anymore. They start outgrowing the need for them, in my interpretation. It looks like they start gaining side effects from their old medications, and they just no longer tolerate them. Those you have to look out for because we know very well there are pretty severe withdrawal conditions, even with serotonin medicines that are reported to be very safe and effective, and I just have not had success with them. Most of my patients come in resistant to start. There are patients in the mild to moderate disease spectrum that even come off of ketamine after about three to four years of success. And if they're abiding by a low inflammatory diet, avoiding external sources of glutamine, exercising, maintaining their body, then they do quite well. Those in the moderate to severe severe illness category, like my bipolar patients, severe PTSD. Some of them have tried to come off, and they just do better on it, and their labs look good.

[01:03:39.080] - Speaker 3

We are incorporating supplements and anti-inflammatory techniques, so they want to stay on it. Another group that's They're very frightened to come off of it because of the enormous benefit they've had. Many will say they feel better than they've ever felt in their lives. We've had patients go from complete disability to starting their own companies and traveling internationally. That level of success, they're just afraid to risk letting go of. We do see the gamut, but by and large, ketamine is very well tolerated and very forgiving to come off of.

[01:04:12.520] - Speaker 1

Well, we are getting close to the top of our time together. I just want to ask you both just to share how... Scott, I know you work nationally, so you could perhaps share how people can get in touch with you. But Dr. Rachel, I know you're Colorado, you could share about how people might be able to find you and your colleague, but maybe also how they can learn more about low-dose ketamine, if it's something they're interested in and they can't access you, whether there's any trainings or anything that they could bring to their doctors to help make the case for trying a novel treatment. So maybe Scott, we'll start with you, and then we'll go with... Well, either way.

[01:04:57.640] - Speaker 3

Okay. Oh, you're kind. You go ahead, Rachel. I like listening to you. We have all of my team's research. It's open source. You can print it and download it for free on my company's website, sapient-md. Com. That's sapient-md. Com. You can also I'll have to Google search my name and find there are some podcasts on Rumbel, I think a couple on YouTube that describe the Ketamine Trokey process. I'm also consulting now nationally and somewhat internationally for providers who want to learn these techniques. The article I mentioned before is a great reference if you want to start the conversation with your provider. It's about long-acting low-dose ketamine. That's sublingu. It was published in Nature Medicine in June of 2024. It is also on my website. Those are resources to start with, and then I'll leave it to Scott here.

[01:05:51.580] - Speaker 2

I co-owned the Leading Edge clinic with my partner, Dr. Pierre Kory. You can just put Leading Edge clinic in your Google search or whatever, and we'll come up. We are a telemedicine clinic that sees patients in all 50 states and internationally. I do see a small number of patients in person here in Dippic in New York, where I live in my office and have done stem cell exosome clinics here. In terms of resources, I would speak very highly of the former FLCC Alliance. I'm sorry, I just can't get myself to say their name. People who want to learn more about what are the pathologies of the spike protein, what are the possible things that they could do on their own for free? You're not going to have to buy the supplements, but in terms of many, many people have physicians who are just not ready to learn this. I write a sub stack called Lightning Bug. As a free subscriber, you could go through and read what I've written. I did a very lengthy case study on delinear compression. I There's a case study on nerve transmitters. There's a lot of information there in clinical context for both the light person and clinician.

[01:07:23.980] - Speaker 2

I have some words of caution and advice to every Everyone out there who thinks that what we talked about may apply to them. Even myself, as someone who's vaccine-injured, and I think pretty knowledgeable about the condition, the syndrome, and treatment, I don't treat myself. I do seek counsel with another provider. I think, ironically, clinicians are most guilty of this, physicians in particular, that they get this information and think, Well, I can treat myself. I actually think physicians are some of my most difficult patients because they think they can figure this out on their own, and they Maybe they want to be frugal. I would say you would be better off having a one-hour consult with a guy like me or someone in practice and just getting some perspective because there's As they say, the devil's in the details. We've learned a thing or two over the last three years with 10,000 patients. There's a lot that you can do on your own, but if you want to get to the finish line, at some point, you're going to need help from someone like me. Okay.

[01:08:49.500] - Speaker 1

Well, well, Rachel Scott, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to share your knowledge with me and my audience. Thank you.

[01:08:58.400] - Speaker 2

This was fun. Thanks so much for Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you want to see the full video interview, we also post these to YouTube. Just go to Wittduring Psychiatry on YouTube to find those. You'll also find several YouTube exclusive videos from Dr. Joseph and Marissa posted several times a week. Finally, if you need help with your drug taper, getting a second opinion, or managing your post-acute withdrawal, come visit us at wittduringpsychiatry. Com. Our sole focus is on helping patients regain control of their lives and achieve optimal mental health on as little medications as possible.